Garmin will upgrade it to the GTX330ES, which has ADS-B Out, but requires a WAAS GPS input. SE 57 WE Installation of two Roto-Master Turbochargers P/N 600572-00 on Continental TSIO-520-D engine. specials*] Moreover, the aircraft are relatively complex-certainly when compared to, for example, a Cessna 182-so dont assume it will be as cheap to maintain. WITH HARTZELL Rocky Landsverk is the Editor and Publisher of the Piper Owner Society and PIPERS magazine. Model 415 O200A Engine Upgrade STC SA2628WE . Rocky Landsverk is the Editor and Publisher of the Piper Owner Society and PIPERS magazine. This assumes that you have wheelpants on the airplane; if you don't, subtract 2 knots. Its pretty much plug and play. The Rajay system essentially had a second throttle wastegate control the pilot used to manually set boost at altitude. Photos of this 1959 Piper PA-24 Comanche Review by Jack Fleetwood ( www.JackFleetwood.com ). AUSTRALIAN HORN COMPRISES, Please Garmin G5 Electronic Flight Instrument. 2 U Mods,Weight and Balance, - WHATEVER The airframe dimensions are identical, but the internal fuselage structure was changed to accommodate the additional window. The Piper Owner Society would like to thank the following contributors: A sampling of quotes from this first webinar. The navigator also connects to a Bluetooth keyboard as yet another option for data entry. What makes this system our top pick for a high-end EFIS is the number of display options and the 500-plus approved model STC. Walter Sykes, (561) 278-1964. Tony_Scarpelli, Oct 6, 2013 #7. . horn/torque tube/balance weight tube Since its important that the flight controls are properly rigged (while ensuring the landing gear and landing gear doors are retracted fully and fit flush) this should be the first step before any aftermarket mods are installed. Realistically, youll want to budget $2000 for an easy installation (including the strobe light), paperwork and flight testing, and a bit more if the light doesnt exactly bolt directly in place of the existing lamp assembly. The basic, bare-bones G3X Touch with a 7-inch screen is $7995. That is because of a simple fact that anybody who has painted their house or restained their deck knows: Strip and prep are the most time-consuming part of the paint job, by Piper Owner Society | Jun 8, 2022 | Maintenance, Upgrade & Refurbish | 0. CHOOSE YOUR FREE DOWNLOAD: CHEROKEE GUIDE OR DIGITAL ISSUE, Sky Smith, Editorial Board, Aviation Insurance Expert, Bob Hart, Editorial Board & Avionics Guru. In 1958, Piper introduced a 250 hp (190 kW) version using a Lycoming O-540 engine, giving the PA-24-250 Comanche a top cruise speed of 160 kn (180 mph; 300 km/h). *$4495 with Flight Stream 210 (built-in AHRS), version for helicopters. Tail mount version. L3 Avionics product sold by Aspen. General Tiger with fixed gear goes just as fast and another contemporary retractable, the Mooney M20C or M20E, will outrun the 180. Upon shutdown, this allows the oil to drain from the hot turbos instead of remaining inside them and cooking. You can modify its engine, its look, its handling, its panel and its features. Even if youre not qualified to paint your plane yourself, you can still do most of the work. rebuilds of your existing Piper factory. Piper Cherokee Modifications & SpeedImprovements, :uninterrupted flow in which the direction of flow. Can you rewire and move the circuit breakers on a Piper. 24WR, Wing Fillet Kit. Were told one way to smoothen those landings is by adding the Knots2U wing root fillets, which eliminate the vortex striking the stabilator when flaps are used. That extra payload has to go for fuel to feed the IO-720, meaning that for flights of more than 300 miles, the 400 actually has less payload available than the 260. If you already have a healthy and modern transponder and you dont plan to fly high, Garmins GDL82 UAT solution sells for $1795-the second cheapest. Speeds are up around 155 to 160 knots at cruise, burning about 12 GPH. Never created a website login before? Top Avionics Upgrades: Choices For All Budgets, Shopping For A Seaplane: Pick A Price Point, Sun n Fun 2023: Superior Custom Instrument Panels. Clockwise from the top: The digital Genesys S-TEC 3100 has a growing STC list and is a good value because it work with existing S-TEC autopilot servos, saving a sizable amount of installation time. Those familiar with the Comanche maintain major causes of gear-system problems are poor maintenance or rigging by mechanics unfamiliar with it. This issue (April 2022), the Comanche restoration moves to the interior, where Greg replaced almost everything inside the hull. contact us for horns, installation kits, horn installations in your Comanche, or Piper Comanche PA-24, PA-30, PA-39 Models. Read about the 1959 Piper Comanche that was restored to pristine condition, and what you can learn from the process. It went up in January when the panel upgrade was completed. We are certified to install Continental TSIO-360KB engines in your Seneca II. To hold more fuel needed to feed it, there were optional 130-gallon tanks. Accept that youll be a test pilot for a few hours. Other than the obvious boost in confidence and reliability, getting rid of all that hardware sheds sizable weight and clutter behind the instrument panel. This is a great airspeed for 160 hp and roughly 10 gph of 100LL. Piper Comanche PA-24 Models. A complete overhaul must also include inspection and measurements on all engine components. Diversity and the version made for helicopters. There were a number of different models built during that . O.E.M. Pilots who have mastered the Comanche tell us you probably wont make a smooth arrival every single time, but that its not much different from some other high-performance singles. These webinars total hours of advice from the Piper Owner Society Editorial Board, led by Aviation Director Scott Sherer. Theres also a good supply of aftermarket and PMAd parts for commonly needed items. Click here. The 180 Comanches load-carrying capacity is ample but modest. The Comanche market has two price points, really. On the higher end, Garmin has a widespread STC for the once experimental G3X Touch. Initially the airplane was equipped with hand brakes, but after 1960 most Comanches were delivered with optional toe brakes. Theres roughly a $6000 greater price delta between the 10-inch G500TXi ($15,995) and the 10-inch G3X Touch. Old models worth getting rid of include the King KT76/78 series and anything made by Narco or Collins. Avidyne was the first with a hybrid user interface, which means you use a combination of touch and button presses. CHOOSE YOUR FREE DOWNLOAD: CHEROKEE GUIDE OR DIGITAL ISSUE, How to Disassemble and Transport a Legacy Piper, How and Why to Strip Your Plane Yourself Before it Gets Repainted, Restoring the Interior of a Legacy Piper: How You Can Save Money, Comanche Engine and Mounts: What Happens During an Upgrade, Comanche Reassembly: What a Legacy Piper Looks Like When Its Taken Apart. In 1966, the Comanche B, with a fuel-injected 260-HP Lycoming IO-540-D4A5, a boosted gross weight (now 3100 pounds) and two more seats, was added to the lineup, starting with serial number 24-4300. by Rocky Landsverk | Sep 9, 2022 | Comanche Restoration Series, Maintenance, Upgrade & Refurbish | 0. This means in those applications there is limited rewiring required. Money back guarantee on all modifications. What kind of paint do you use to repaint a Piper engine? Plus, it can be well-maintained at a lower cost than aircraft of lesser performance due to the widespread use of generic parts. Requires WAAS GPS input, tablet interface requires Flight Stream wireless Bluetooth module, Garmin Pilot or ForeFlight app. It has a battery backup in case of electrical failure and can be paired with the $2549 G5 heading/electronic HSI instrument for dual ADAHRS redundancy. Requires Garmin Pilot, ForeFlight tablet app. The plane has not been a drain maintenance wise. But for the lucky 400 owners the cost of admission is worth it-most big-engined Comanche owners say that with speed mods, 200 knots is a way of life. ). At long last, this 1959 Comanche that was disassembled and trailered . displays TIS-B, FIS-B ATAS (ADS-B Traffic Alerting System), includes Active Traffic (Interrogates Non-ADS-B Aircraft). Partial plug-and-play with some existing BendixKing transponders. Designed to work with and connects to the existing Mode A/C transponder. While offering good looks and good performance for the money, the Comanche 260 may be a handful for the first-time owner. New prop 50 hours. Expect overruns and long downtimes. You don't have to go wide open with it, typically in my Travelair I would lose 2-3kts and save 3gph while still running smooth. I was authorized to do anything I wanted to this airplane, under the inspection and authorization of my A&P/IA, Neil Humphreys, Piehl said. Cessna's owners manual has for decades had pilots run lop. Find your Customer Number (its on your mailing label) and register here. Theres plenty of instrument panel real estate to pretty much do whatever you can afford. Email: darren@powerflowsystems.com, Address: Click here or above for a free download: Cherokee guide OR free digital issue. The engines are identical, but with a different propeller redline. These days, major avionics upgrades include sourcing a new instrument panel to accommodate large flight displays. By then, Piper was already established in Vero Beach, Florida, but neither the single nor the Twin Comanche variants made the transition to Vero. There are so many mods available for the Comanche line that probably no two aircraft are alike today. Production of both the 180 and 250 ended after the 1964 model year. Depending on the model and mods, it seems like a Comanche can have a never-ending supply of fuel tanks. The ICS is extremely resourceful, with a list of qualified instructors and shops familiar with the airplane. Youll need a reliable unit for the long term. contact us for horns, installation kits, horn installations in your Comanche, or rebuilds of your existing Piper factory horn/torque tube/balance weight tube assembly. And if your existing transponder is an aging non-digital (has a cavity oscillator tube) model, our advice is to ditch it and put in an ADS-B transponder. PA23, PA23-160 Apache. It expensive enough buying a 40 or 50 year old airplane. We have 24 PIPER COMANCHE SERIES Aircraft For Sale. As with a car stereo or home theater setup, you can get help with the wiring harnesses, and Piehl, who didnt farm out very much in this restoration, did use one of those services. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/lasarignsys.php, From out of the clear blue of the Western sky, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. But if you want to connect the new displays audio output feature, your shop will need to wire it in to the audio panel. ON AND UNDERSTAND Now is a good time to invest, but dont let lower prices fool you into thinking even a basic upgrade will be inexpensive. There are mixed reviews from owners on maintaining a Comanche. This requires the use of micrometers, calipers, thickness gauges, and other measuring equipment to ensure that all parts meet the tolerances required by the engine manufacturer. And I purchased six new Superior Millennium cylinders and pistons for the overhaul; I didnt want to use the originals, in fact I sold those off to an airboat shop in central Florida. Also note that this engine has some really cool colors. A worn-out fuel cap assembly has a compromised seal around the fuel inlet and could leak fuel in flight or allow water intrusion from a hefty rainstorm into the fuel tank. Learn how to repair plastic trim here. LJ Warren, owner of Zephyr Aircraft Engines, is a friend of Piehls. 24WF, Wing Tips. The number of available aftermarket mods for the plane is extensive; some are overpriced and pointless in my view, while othersare fairly cheap and offer great results. Most of my flight time is in single-engine Cessnas. Can you hide the transponders if a Piper panel is small? INC. wants to extend to you an open invitation to stop in at our There were a few companies involved in this stage. All were zinc-chromated during assembly, for corrosion protection. They build and 100% test the harness for installation. To many pilots, Piper's Twin Comanche represents an apex of light twin design. Upgrade & Refurbish. Finally, we felt the pain of the pilot who flew to a neighboring airport for fuel, only to find the tanks locked. Our current best selling and most popular mods. Ive seen some IAs do the six-cylinder engine conversion and sign it off with a logbook entry. However, the empty weight is also higher, by 337 pounds. Greg Piehl, who lives in St. Petersburg, Florida, with his wife Debbie, spent three years restoring and upgrading their 1959 Piper Comanche 250. { The only major issues have been a nosegear door repair and re-rigging the trim cable. TSO certified, STC for installation pending. Those owners will eventually spend big money at the avionics shop for new metal panels and modern avionics, including autopilots and engine displays. Which of the reductions is smaller is too hard to say, but the difference isn't going to be significant. Comanche is my favorite Piper single. Its available with and without WAAS GPS and has built-in Bluetooth for sending flight data, ADS-B traffic and weather data to a tablet or smartphone running the Garmin Pilot or ForeFlight tablet apps. (parseInt(navigator.appVersion) >= 3 )) || Both models had carbureted engines mated to constant-speed props. Arch-Warrior, Inc. offers an STC to covert a Warrior to 180 HP. The basic airframe proved successful and wasnt changed much during its production run. We know of one flight school that had a Comanche on its flight line and it required renters to perform gear extensions and retractions with the airplane on jack stands. You need to go to somebody whos trained in that model of aircraft but has not seen it before. -Scott Sherer, Fuel is going to be biggest expense. And that creates a problem. That may or may not even out the distribution, and you don't get much fuel flow reduction, either. A major problem with older aircraft is the condition of the interior plastic trim. Higher, and Further as well as Repair It, Annual It, Overhaul the Engine(s), So that was #1 on my list: The avionics I chose had to communicate with the other avionics., His next requirement was the ability to self-install the instruments, with the help of his A&P. Turns out the claim was close enough to crown the skyBeacon a winner for a budget-based solution, the deal sweetened with a two-for LED lighting upgrade. Piehl said, he gave me a lot of advice like where to find parts, and I subbed a lot of work to him, such as magnafluxing connecting rods and checking all the gears, and that inspection is required for a complete overhaul. Pick one and work to maintain a good relationship. Its a generous interface. This rebuilding a Piper engine article is from Greg Piehl, who lives in St. by Rocky Landsverk | Sep 9, 2022 | Avionics, Comanche Restoration Series, Upgrade & Refurbish | 0, by Rocky Landsverk | Sep 9, 2022 | Comanche Restoration Series, Upgrade & Refurbish | 0. I hold commercial, instrument and multi-engine ratings, have 2300 hours total time with 500-plus hours of complex time, plus Ive logged about 200 hours in my Comanche. The good news is that lots of shops can work on them (although as the accident reports show, pick one that knows the model well), parts are available and market prices are steady, yet reasonable. Youll need them for support, including software and hardware upgrades as the systems mature. Sun n Fun 2023: Superior Custom Instrument Panels. Remote version of the AXP340. There are no downloads available of this content. Also, the inspector must have experience using this equipment.. I used the company Approach Fast Stack to build the wiring harness for the entire panel, he said. Throttle 1/8 mixture where you set for lean taxi, mags hot, hit the starter. So to help sort it out, in this article well offer an around-the-bases look at the most popular new avionics configurations-from entry-level (for basic aircraft) to higher-budget (for go-places higher-end machines). Garmin GTX 345 ADS-B Transponder. Also, the carbureted O-540 found in the Comanche 250 may be upgraded to fuel injection. Well start by saying that primary monitors (ones that are approved to replace all of the OEM gauges-including fuel quantity) require a sizable installation. You might hear some say the Comanche is tough to land smoothly, and that it floats when in the flare, and then drops on. He headed back to home plate and ran the airplane dry on downwind. I believe the payoff was at about 400 hours on a 172 with the reduced fuel burn, and not having to maintain a carb. The panel is what one would expect from a circa-1960s airplane, with good space for instruments but early, unrestored models will look dated by modern standards. Internal WAAS $5795, GTX345-R LRU priced the same and works on G1000 NXi, G2000, G3000, G5000. Grass Lake, MI USA Compare. Weve covered this system extensively, and most recently in the May 2019 Aviation Consumer where we installed one in a Piper Cherokee to see if it really was the worlds easiest ADS-B upgrade as the company claims. Weve see trade values as high as $8000. Piper Comanche PA-24 Models. by Piper Owner Society | Feb 13, 2023 | Upgrade & Refurbish | 0. Displays TIS-B, FIS-B ATAS (ADS-B Traffic Alerting System), includes Active Traffic (Interrogates Non-ADS-B Aircraft). But unless you buy one thats been particularly well-restored and cared for, getting an old Comanche up to snuff can be a pricey proposition. We like that it keeps grime and dirt away from wheel assembly. Piper then skipped directly to the 400 HP PA-24-400 in . Subscribe today to read the entire series, which chronicles: What you will learn in this installment, upgrading a Piper panel. Garmin's G500 retrofit avionics system ranks as one of the best values in aviation, offering a host of advanced capabilities for under $20,000. Very clean west cost Comanche. Piper Comanche PA-24-400, PA-30, PA-39 Models. I gave them the info on the avionics I chose, and the layout of them in the panel. Number 3 was ease of use. Continentals are easy to hot start, full throttle, mixture rich, hi pump till you get flow, 1,2,3,4, off. Greg Piehl, who lives in St. Petersburg, Florida, with his wife Debbie, spent three years restoring and upgrading their 1959 Piper Comanche 250. In fact, the IFD100 app essentially adds a second IFD550 display/control set on the tablet. In other words, our equipment had to talk with anything else installed in theairframe. And an airplane thats been all over the hangar floor for a month or longer-now with unfamiliar avionics-is a poor match for the nonproficient pilot. The trim is generally in very poor condition, with various cracks in the trim and deformation around the screw holes. That engine has an 1800-hour TBO and the current Aircraft Bluebook says the overhaul is around $65,000. The engine case is running oil temperature, which is right around 180 degrees. Buying (an airplane) is not as hard as dealing with it in the first few years. Some of the engine parts were sent around the country, reconditioned, and sent back to Florida, where Piehl worked on it. Posted by Rocky Landsverk | Sep 13, 2022 | Comanche Restoration Series, Upgrade & Refurbish This "rebuilding a Piper engine" article is from Greg Piehl, who lives in St. Petersburg, Florida, with his wife Debbie, spent three years restoring and upgrading their 1959 Piper Comanche 250. What the 180-HP Comanche lacks for cruise speed it certainly makes up for with endurance. Top Efis Upgrades Of all the avionics upgrades, planning a primary flight display retrofit is perhaps the most difficult. I get approximately 200 feet per minute in climb increase and 15 knots in cruise. If the G5 attitude instrument fails, the directional instrument reverts to an attitude display. After 34 years, the first flight of N6494P took place at Zephyrhills Airport, three days before leaving on a trip to Oshkosh, Wisconsin, just in time for AirVenture in July and August 2021. Same as FDL-978-XVR but with internal WAAS GPS. Thats the 20 to 22 GPH at 75 percent power that engine is consuming. I can put 260 hp on a Cherokee Arrow and never fly as fast as a Comanche. by Rocky Landsverk | Nov 17, 2022 | Upgrade & Refurbish | 0. They all seem to run somewhat rough when you get all cylinders LOP. What stands out in this section of our overhaul is the way that Piehl again constructs a template with which to practice and test his major work. It doesn't take much carb heat to even out distribution. if(MSFPhover) { MSFPnav1n=MSFPpreload("_derived/comprops.htm_cmp_jas110_hbtn.gif"); MSFPnav1h=MSFPpreload("_derived/comprops.htm_cmp_jas110_hbtn_a.gif"); } Got an existing GTX330 Mode S unit? I basically just had to make the power connections to each component/circuit breaker. Two interesting facts related to this section of the overhaul: Just about the only things that survived to todays version of this Comanche are the seat frames, and just about the only thing that Piehl or his friends didnt do on this plane comes in this installment the leather upholstery work. Many carb engines will happily run LOP too. And you should. For dual installations (maybe an IFD550 and IFD440), the connections are independent for redundancy, but have full synchronization. Click here or above for a free download: Cherokee guide OR free digital issue. Consider that the airplane had a tail-low stance when its weight is on the wheels. He's very difficult to contact but one CPA member reports successfully purchasing the STC in 2006. As one result, many have opted to replace their old Hartzells for new two- or three-blade Hartzell or McCauley propellers, which terminates the AD. 685. The 250/260 is the right amount of horses so the airplane does everything well, carry 4 fat guys to Utah, takeoff and land relatively short, roomy and flys nice. Early in my career, I was an avionics engineer in military electronics for a major contractor, Piehl said. The Comanche line debuted in 1958, with the Comanche 180 and 250 models. There were eight LOC events in IMC or dark night conditions. Cabin and cowling door repairs are often neglected, so be sure to inspect them for shoddy repairs and improper cabin door seals. Correct me if I am wrong: Carb icing is less possible with FI and Vapor Lock is more likely with FI so it is a trade off in that department. Theres good reason to consider going vac-less. EVOLUTION MFD, some garmin and avidyne displays. No, its not complicated but a review of service difficulty reports (and the NTSB accident reports) indicates its a top sore spot, along with general airframe corrosion and engine/ prop issues. The installation was straight-forward with no surprises. Posted by Rocky Landsverk | Sep 9, 2022 | Avionics, Comanche Restoration Series, Upgrade & Refurbish. Based on our time in Comanches, we say fly it like its meant to be flown, really, and youll wonder what the barroom chatter was all about.