I find myself regularly reminding pastors that before God made them pastors, He made them people. If Christians love their Ted Talk pastor more than Gods Word and His instructions, then I dont know what to say. Instead, I suggest that you find blogs to read that speak to you and your needs. May God bless you and continue to use you. Oh yeah, and Jesus. The gospel is that were all sinners and are going to Hell, Jesus came to Earth as man and God to live a sinless life and He took the punishment for our sins on the cross. Certainly, it is missing in how Saddleback presents itself publicly. I am passionate about encouraging Christian women to grow in their faith, live godly lives, and discern truth from all the lies and noise of the world. We need to change how we see God, not ourselves. The only area you are completely off the mark (and quite innocently) is in the recovery program. Has anyone ever wondered why so many people would like the same book? I feel bad for you that you judge that way. We may not only be losing Saddleback Church and Rick Warren. A couple of examples include Luke 11:37-54 (the woes) and Luke 13:14-17 (calling out hypocrites). I know countless people whose lives have literally been saved through their involvement with CR. Christians ought to start with the Bible, not tack it onto what they already believe. Filed Under: All Posts, Work/life balance Tagged With: effective care ministry, Lance Witt, self care, work life balance, GriefShare equips lay people to care for grieving people. I am warning believers of a false teacher. In my tiny corner of the internet, I am sharing concerns about a hugely popular pastor. After leaving Saddleback, Lance started a ministry called Replenish to help pastors care for themselves as they do the work of ministry. Third, youve accused me of being prideful, self-righteous, and claim I think I am the only one who knows the Truth. People choose to reject Him, and our God serves perfect justice which is separation from Him in Hell. Ive seen people completely renewed after salvation. Second, you think Im jealous of Rick Warren. Lets talk about what that might look like. What about being a Saint, and Living as a Hermit? For Rick to do what he did in Southern California required some different strategies and different ways of communicating, and that was unsettling to traditional hard-line Southern Baptists. Never mind He died on a cross because of our terrible, damning sin and He created the world out of nothing. During normal operations, Saddleback's Lake Forest site is said to have a weekly attendance of often more than 30,000 congregants. All trends in theological education indicate that fewer and fewer men are going to seminary and seeking the degrees that have historically been conferred upon pastors in Southern Baptist life. COVID had its impact on our Saddleback staff because we were not able to all be together in the offices. The standards given in the book are based on Warrens experience. Its not minor to openly and unrepentantly disobey Gods Word by ordaining female pastors. The Bible. Rather, I am asking people to reconsider Rick Warren and Saddleback. Women have a biblical role in society from helping within the church to fulfilling the Great Commission. It also says that an overseer a pastor is to be faithful to his wife. Im actually sad that he is so liberal and strays from the gospel. Third, you told me that I might have stopped people from finding God. At the same time, the Bible isnt really open to multiple interpretations in most places. It also features the stories of over 75 everyday people whove applied biblical principles to heal from grief. I dont give my churchs name out because it feels like it crosses a personal line. Have you run across that? Whos right ,and Who is wrong! They start acting as though they dont have limits. Know Ephesians 4. Id rather that than allow them to continue on with liberal and progressive practices while Christian leadership nods along like everything is all good. Were just on a very dangerous course right now. My wife and kids felt the impact of my out-of-control pace. You are allowed your opinion, as am I. I am not seeking to tear down another Christian. It says they have to be temperate. A true Church of the living God with Christ as the head will thrive in any situation. Oh, dear. Rick Warren and his wife started Saddleback with a vision to plant a church for people who didnt like church. I could tell you oodles about the church history because Saddleback loves itself some Saddleback. Of course, the problem with a man-centered church like Saddleback is that the church is bound together by a celebrity pastor rather than by the blood of Christ. What should believers do about pastors who lead others astray? Sabbath to me is different than a day off. Third, experiences dont trump the Bible. Lots of people know the Truth, but there is only one place to find it. I assume you see me, and others like me, as judgmental and mean. How did you learn that you would be appointed one of the first female pastors for Saddleback Church? Unlike all other gods, though, Jesus is real and rose from the grave 3 days later. I think you have a pet issue that you see in everything Im not saying women cant teach, share the gospel, or otherwise be used in great ways by God for His kingdom purposes. At the time, we had five or six hundred small groups. And a pastors calling is no better because he stands up front on the platform. So, when a Christian recovery program misuses and abuses Scripture, I see a secular program with a veneer of Christianity. Instead you should feel bad for Warren. Im not sure if you understand what straining gnats and swallowing camels means. As I said, earlier, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has given this church carte blanche to do whatever suits Warren. Faithful, Obedient, and Counter-Cultural Christian Living. If you want to teach what you believe is right, do that. Im a pastors wife and mother to 5 children. But now a pastors people listen online to the best communicators anywhere in the country, so theres pressure for a pastor to deliver. Dont let all that fool you. However, I will say that my husband is the pastor of a small, rural Baptist church in Wisconsin. (Dont count on the SBC to do anything, though, theyve silently been allowing female preaching for years.). They are to be held accountable, and Jesus example was public admonishment. Im saying women cant be pastors/elders. That just breaks my heart. But thank you for considering what I wrote and writing a thoughtful comment. Theres a button to push for that, and it will zip you over to a video of Rick Warren seemingly wrapping up a message. Nobody else was responsible. On the other hand, you cant skip fundamentals like the seriousness of sin, Hell, and repentance and still be sharing the whole gospel. Instead, the couple shepherded the large church through the COVID-19 pandemic and a shutdown than would affect the church for about 14 months. A woman wrestling with depression. This blog post is not to teach what I think is right, Brittany. You are a small petty jealous man. I assure you Im not. His critics would have been delighted if he had failed. Thanks. I understand how overwhelming addiction is and how impossible it can feel to overcome. I believe that without the salvation he granted me at 26 years old, Id be a another victim of alcoholism. And we need to test everything: hold fast what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). A mistake is generally accepted as an unintentional thing. You are welcome to disagree and hold to whatever beliefs you hold on the subject, and I respect your opinion. CR was not created by Warren. So the Southern Baptist Convention gave it the boot, Q&A: Talking about the Southern Baptist sex abuse scandal with Pastor P.J. Large pictures of him living his best life now while describing him in such a way that it feels a little cultish. I attended Saddleback for many years but so happy to now be in a church that teaches the Bible in depth, verse by verse. We actually changed some of our terminology: Instead of considering yourself the leader of this small group, could you just host a group in your home and facilitate? Just that simple language change made a difference. I love family, homeschooling, and most of all Jesus. In addition to the excellent help that Lance shared in his interview, you might be interested in reading the following CareLeader.org articles: Rick changed the culture of the community where he lives, and theres nothing that makes a backward Baptist angrier than the church growth success of someone like Rick Warren. That is sin. By the same logic, you should probably refrain from commenting on someones blog post It doesnt make sense, you know? Not only is there a thorough history on the site, but you can receive more of Warrens Saddleback Church history from the 101 class offered to new members. Then something changed, Most of Yosemite Valley is closed due to potentially perilous snowpack and flooding, She felt paralyzed: L.A. woman sues Big Surs Esalen Institute for alleged use of video with N-word in class, Dramatic video from rescue of driver who plunged more than 500 feet off Bay Area cliff, Mom influencer who said Latino couple tried to kidnap her kids convicted of false report, Cooler weather to bring rare May rain, snow into Southern California, Mass shooting leaves 3 women and 1 man dead in the Mojave desert. Hi, Elizabeth. But I love the Church, and I am grieved by the dangerous and lukewarm teachings of men and women like Rick Warren. If anything, you didnt go far enough, but you were 100% correct. On Tuesday (Feb. 21), Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, was "deemed not to be in friendly cooperation" with the SBC for having Stacie Woods wife of newly appointed senior pastor. God is just love. An example of this eisegesis can be seen with the following verse: Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.. I understand.) (Though, I admit to using sarcasm. A regular occurrence in The Purpose Driven Life, it seems. Saddleback Church has been at the head of Christian news headlines in the last several weeks. Go back to your white washed sepulcher where you and your associates are most comfortable. Yes Julie, you are allowed to have ones opinion, but Julie, is it necessary to make an entire post about it? Lets pretend you read this watered down gospel, and you want to be saved. Im not suggesting an addict will be in recovery the next day. Or you can do this, and then your church will explode in size because your pastor is a self-help guru, not a faithful preacher of the Word of God. I have read this post over and over again because I want to take any critical comments I receive seriously and to check my tone. Thanks for giving the post a read, though. Dwight McKissic, senior pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, shared his displeasure on Twitter, writing that the decision to "disfellowship" Saddleback was not about. He refuses to address sin. Get Connected Yes, but if somehow you managed to get saved through this clumsy attempt at sharing the gospel, you have no guidance in how to find a church besides Saddleback. is loved by everyone, then I need to look closely for the problem. Christians cant even peacefully agree on a Bible translation, but millions will read and love this book? Jesus is just love. But lets quickly look at the most commonly used scripture to explain this position. I can assure you that I spent time prayerfully considering the points you made in your comment. I certainly hope that you take your own advice, as well. Its difficult to find critical reviews of it. ), but its presented in a safe, child-like way. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. The Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, conceived as an organization of individual churches with a set of shared beliefs that pool some of their resources, but which are ultimately autonomous. Im not sure people even know them when they see them. Get a Bible There it is! So I hope Saddleback appeals it. Get up to speed with our Essential California newsletter, sent six days a week. 3 Ways to Maintain Sanity in Ministry by Dr. Jeff Forrey. The way he delivers his lukewarm message doesnt resonate with you and thats fine, you have every right to go to a different church. 4 Who are you to judge anothers servant? Men and women, according to Scripture, are equal in the sight of the Lord. Now what on earth can someone have against Celebrate Recovery (CR)? An anxious wife. Warren uses a lot of Bible verses in The Purpose Driven Life, but he consistently engages in eisegesis. Some of that was because of the pace and the demands, but some of it was also because I didnt lead myself very well. If you believe that women can and/or should be pastors, I ask you to flip your method of interpreting the Word. You have a little bit wrong, though. I have spent some time looking up CR, meditation, and even that quote specifically since I read your question. I am in complete agreement with you on all fronts. Celebrate Recovery advises people to forgive themselves and forgive God. God bless! Celebrate Recovery uses this verse to support the principle that to recover, I need to examine and confess my faults to myself, to God, and to someone I trust. This is a completely unrelated interpretation of that verse. That is how our polity is intended to work. At Saddleback, we did Just In Time training, giving people just enough to get started. The Bible portrays a special position for females in the church and society. First, pastors have to connect the what to the why. I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. I suppose I stepped on some toes here, but sometimes we need our toes stepped on, right? Check out this article about when he spoke to Muslims and encouraged them not to compromise their beliefs for the greater good of working together with Christians. You dont have to agree, but Google it and youll find plenty of Bible scholars who would agree with me. A soul freed from addiction but not from the bondage of sin is still damned. Whats a good first step for you to take?. If youre recruiting them to be a small-group leader, whats the job of a small-group leader? You can find detailed answers to those questions on the My Testimony and What Is The Set-Apart Walk pages. You dont agree and you think Im a terrible person, but that doesnt refute my points. Baptism This is a good thing. Unfortunately, the SBC runs like a microcosm of a government. 4. People have to be inspired. God created Adam first and then Eve. Then why does Warren tell his readers to accept Jesus? Im definitely not straining gnats by pointing out that a world famous pastor gives a weak gospel or maybe even none at all. What is happening now seems to me to be a great divorce from Baptist history and heritage, said Cole, who tweets his thoughts on the SBC under the handle @baptistblogger. For one, you called me a man. Ordaining female pastors contradicts biblical teachings. I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. My concerns about Rick Warren and Saddleback are not about mistakes, though. Of course you will use your declining membership as sign of walking a pure and narrow walk. What church do you attend? My prayer is that people turn back to solid Bible teaching in their local churches. At the same time, the addiction is the secondary issue. I also hope Pastor Warren gave a clear gospel presentation last Sundayevery Sunday really. Second, help people clearly understand what youre asking them to do. She started at The Times in 2006 and has worked across a wide range of sections including entertainment, home and garden, national news, technology and science. 2. He is telling them it is the cleanliness of the inner man that matters. Witnesses offer conflicting accounts, Mars Voltas lead singer broke with Scientology and reunited with the band. Put some of your training online, or give volunteers a handout. Saddleback ordained three women on May 6, 2021. Its actually a really good question. That pastors books can be bestsellers. A Southern Baptist pastor on thinking, talking and praying about the recent sex abuse scandal. Its driven by power, male supremacy; and it stinks in the nostrils of God, he wrote. No gospel to be found, but he does invite the reader to accept Christ. Church growth can be through the roof. Lance and his wife, Connie, have been married thirty-eight years and have two married children and four beautiful granddaughters. The Bible explicitly tells women what to teach in Titus 2:3-5. Another missing gospel, a focus on something other than Jesus, and mishandling Scripture make for another gospel failing. He makes people who prefer authoritarian evangelical structures bristle. Essentially, the gospel isnt present. Kay Warren, Rick Warrens wife, added insult to injury on Mothers Day and gave the Sunday message. Destructive hard does lead to burnout. Absolutely not! Challies gives an example of Warren using Job 22:21, Acquaint now thyself with him, and be at peace: thereby good shall come unto thee. Warren uses this verse in a positive way in his book. Women, however, cannot teach men in a role of authority in the church as seen on 1 Timothy 2:11-12. Rick Warren certainly seems to be slipping past a bunch of people. False conversions are real, and the risk only gets more significant when the church is loose on exegetical teaching or waters down the gospel. Bob Smietana. Weve thought, Im supposed to be available 24/7. It could be just a place that entertains and tickles peoples ears. Youre a rare gem in that way. GriefShare is a powerful, Christ-centered grief recovery program. Paul celebrated that even those that preached out of selfishness didnt matter; the gospel was moving forward! Thats my experience, at least. I mention this because its a bit inconsistent to tell me I can have my opinion, but in the next breath, tell me if and how I should share it The celebrity pastor culture at the church and pastor emphasis on the website distract from Jesus. One exercise I do with pastors is called the Replenishment Cycle. You write well, and you are obviously passionate about your faith.) Everyone has rights to opinions but its not necessary to have to post them. Celebrate Recovery shares how to be born again, but the programs focus is the program. Enter your email address, select the "I want to create an account" option, and click "Continue" to open the Create Login dialog box. Whats the big deal, you ask? Have you spoken to the SBC or Pastor Rick about your concerns? You say that you were saved in CR, but youre not demonstrating a very Christlike attitude towards me. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Its beautiful, and Rick Warren often leaves this out a lot. Looking at your list, though, Id say most of what you listed is unbiblical. Hes literally ushering in a one world religion and setting the stage for the anti-Christ. However, a Christian addictions program ought to avoid promoting self over Jesus. Would you know how to minister to them? Im Julie. Pastors can ask questions like, Whats the state of my soul? Am I drained? Am I actually leading others while running on empty myself? Am I more irritable? Often those are signs of unhealthy motivation. So it was a huge growth for us. I have read all of his devotionals (365 of them as I translated them into another language) and they were sincere and enriching for me personally. Pastors start sacrificing things that Jesus never asked them to sacrifice. When I got to Saddleback, the pace was insanely faster, and the demands were so much more. You may occasionally receive promotional content from the Los Angeles Times. It sounds like Warren based his church on fundamental biblical principles, so what can I say? Pastors need to protect their own personal walk with God. Stay strong and keep the faith in Jesus. I remind pastors all the time that ministry is not their life. The church, led by founding pastor Rick Warren, made the announcement via Facebook, saying the best days are ahead of the congregation. Freeimages.com. Go to saddleback.com and click on the "Sign In/Sign Up" tab in the upper right corner of the home page. God bless you! (If youre not, then you can ignore me here.) She was recently named a teaching pastor and three other women were ordained as associate pastors. The Saddleback Church pastor developed the popular Christ-centered 12-step program for "hurts, habits, and hang-ups." Jump directly to the Content Who We Are People dont have time to spend four Tuesday nights training for a volunteer position. To be saved a person must recognize she is a sinner who has broken Gods law and been separated from Him. Ministry is the box, the delivery system, but Jesus is the gift. All that said, women can teach anyone in many circumstances, and I agree the Bible gives multiple examples of God using women for great things. And it fails the people who go through the program whether they leave in recovery or not. There have always been many different ways of being Baptist. The work in the nursery, on the missions committee, etc., is just as important as a pastors calling. So many people out here in South Bay has been praying for years for a Saddleback campus, and through God's will, daring faith vision, and persistency, the prayers have now been answered. As seen in The Purpose Driven Life, CR uses eisegesis to unite these eight principles with Scripture. I always used the excuse that this was just for a season. Who are you, and what relationship do we have that this is the expectation? Im not going to do a whole post about why female pastors are not biblical. Did you read the post or just the title? Thank you for commenting! Leave the lost wicked dying and addicted to those who give a damn. Before this ordaining women fiasco, though, I already had reservations about Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. When a pastor neglects the gospel and adherence to Gods Word, he is not serving God for other purposes. He is not serving God. Southern Baptists have always been more concerned about distributing life jackets to people who are drowning than straitjackets, he said.