No, its not possible to mix these two refrigerants. As this gas has such an effect on the environment, the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) has strict guidelines for its use. Buy online for free next day delivery or same day pickup at a store near you. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. While R513A is a viable option for new and existing equipment, it is not a "drop- in" replacement for R12 or R134a. R134a is classified as a dangerous greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming. Both of these refrigerants wont be used in new air conditioning or refrigeration plants, but theyll continue to be used in existing plants and the automotive industry. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. There should also be a blue sticker somewhere on the system telling you the date the system was converted. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. Meanwhile, the R-134a gas has a COP of 4.62, which is lower than the other two gases. R134a has a boiling point of -14.9 degrees Fahrenheit, whereas R410 boils at -61.9 degrees. In addition to the low boiling point, there are two other de facto requirements for refrigerant: It shouldnt be poisonous, and it shouldnt be flammable. R134a was developed to replace R12, so it works over the same range of applications. You can find many videos and web forum posts where people retrofit R152a into cars that originally had R12 and profess excellent results, but it is not approved by the EPA for retrofit applications, only new car applications. This week, we discuss the thing thats actually boiling and coolingthe refrigerant itself. Many older automotive systems still use R12, and as youre still able to purchase individual small cans of this refrigerant via on-line marketplaces, its use in many classic motor vehicles will likely continue. Start the car again and add R12A to bring the low side pressure to about 32 psi. The advantage of ester oil is that it works with both R12 as well as R134a, so you can fill the system with it and then use either refrigerant.Sha. R134a replaced R12 from 1994 onwards. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. One of the biggest advantages of using R134a is that its well known, tried, and tested technology. Both of these gasses are very safe for use in all forms of refrigeration as theyre not flammable, explosive, or toxic. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 - Actually R134a is more efficient. Get it as soon as Thursday, Apr 20. Anyway on the low side R134a runs about 2 psi lower than R12 at equivalent temperatures. The R12a cans use the same taps as the R134a cans and the supplied hose has R134a compatible fittings on both ends, so R12a can be used to recharge R134a systems too. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. That doesnt mean to say that there are still many thousands of existing installations that are running refrigeration plants using this refrigerant to cool them. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. The problem was that there was not agreement on exactly what was required for the conversion. R134a was touted as the replacement for R12 until it too was deemed environmentally undesirable. Over time, a credible middle ground emerged. So the oil must be compatible with the refrigerant. 1. It has a lower global warming potential than R134a. Because the two oils were different, R134a certainly wasnt a drop-in replacement for R12. Being a CFC, this product depletes the earths ozone layer, contributing to global warming. Yes, theres a certain irony in the fact that weve gone full-circle from the invasive youll need to replace almost everything including the compressor and hoses in order to properly convert R12 to R134a to you dont need to replace all that much; just flush it, new oil, new drier and o-rings, and back to youll need to replace almost everything including the compressor, hoses, and the condenser. But this change has occurred both because the cars are that much older than they were when the R12 to R134a change occurred in the mid-1990s, and there is now a better understanding of the need to take advantage of updated compressors and condensers in order to get the A/C systems to blow adequately cold with R134a. 21, 1439 AH. Unfortunately, converting existing air conditioners that use R22 to use new refrigerants isnt easy. R134a won't provide the same level of cooling as R12, though. First things first. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Also, the fittings and hoses should be perfectly compatible with R410A. Also worth noting is that the R-600a requires a shorter time to reach -21C (60 minutes) compared to the R-134a (135 minutes) [1]. It became known as R12 or Freon. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. Motor manufacturers in the USA used R134a in air conditioning systems for new cars from 1994. Because of this products greenhouse gas attributes, its manufacture has been banned in the European Union since 2011, and motor manufacturers stopped using it in motor vehicle air conditioning at that time. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. R12, on the other hand, has an ozone depletion potential of 1, implying that it can damage the ozone layer. By international agreement in 1987 (the Montreal Protocol), the use and production of CFCs such as R12 began to be phased out, with automobile manufacturers required to stop using it by the end of the 1994 model year. Theres one type of oil that will work with both refrigerants. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. In the last 10 years, new information has shown that this gas contributes to global warming. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. R12 was used mainly in domestic and commercial refrigeration, while R134a was used mainly by the automotive industry. The advantage of ester oil is that it works with both R12 as well as R134a, so you can fill the system with it and then use either refrigerant. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. I am currently retired and no longer do much with HVAC, however, I feel like I have a lot of knowledge in the subject and I wanted to create a website where I could talk about what I've learned and help upcoming HVAC techs. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. 29. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. Refrigerant 134a, or R134a, was developed as an alternative to the CFC refrigerants known to cause environmental damage. You can then add ester oil thatll work with either R12 or R134a. Required fields are marked *. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. . Relevant Characteristics Between R12 and R134a, R12 vs R134a Refrigerant: What is the Difference? It's important to get good. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. R12 is a powerful ozone depleted, while R134a and R1234yf are not. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. Second, as youll see below, if you have to perform work on an A/C system that has refrigerant in it, it is illegal to vent the refrigerant (to let it escape into the atmosphere); it must be captured and recovered. Its likely that these plants, which will be expensive to convert, will continue to use R12 with careful maintenance. Theyve moved away from using R12 in favor of more modern, environmentally safer products. Price is reasonable Consistent and accurate R12 contains a chemical called chlorine that destroys the ozone layer, thereby causing potential environmental risk. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. When this happens, the chlorine in the product contributes significantly to the ozone layers depletion, leading to a lack of protection from harmful radiation. Important Features: Color-coded Easy to use Made of high-quality brass Specific for R-134a Pros: Easy to operate. However, there are some drawbacks to using this type as well. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. In the years following the switch to R134a, there was confusion over what was required to maintain the A/C of older cars. Alternator Overcharging - Causes and Fixes. Refrigerant 12 or Freon 12 is colloquially known as R12. R134a isnt toxic, corrosive, explosive, or flammable, making it a good choice for air conditioning, but its cooling properties arent as good as R12. Refrigerant for domestic & commercial use, Mainly used in the automotive industry but can be used as a refrigerant for domestic and commercial use, Has excellent cooling properties and performs at a similar level to R134A, Has excellent cooling properties and performs at a similar level to R12. link to Alternator Overcharging - Causes and Fixes, link to LS Head Bolt Torque Specs and Sequence. R12 has an ODP of 1, meaning that it has the highest potential to destroy the ozone layer. Yes, there will be less refrigerant by weight. R134a has a GWP of 1430. The issue is whether you should. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. This is because the pressure temperature relationship of R-12 and R-134a is different. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. The following bullets are verbatim from EPAs website: There is an additional requirement that the cars A/C have charging fittings that are unique to the refrigerant being used, but its the venting part thats of the most interest, as its the area where you can get fined. R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. The question instead is: Why is the system dead? The following is verbatim from EPAs website: EPA performs random inspections, responds to tips, and pursues potential cases against violators of the Section 608 regulations. In contrast, the most likely reason youd consider recharging with an alternative refrigerant is because the refrigerant leaked out of your car and youre trying to avoid doing a full-on A/C rejuvenation which includes finding the leak and properly changing refrigerants. dye and seal. As this chemical has carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine but no chlorine, its not dangerous to the ozone layer. R134a is an HFC or tetrafluoroethane, and its chemical formula is CH2FCF3. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Thus, R-600a is more efficient than R-134a. As long as the compressor was working well, it could be drained, filled with R134a-compatible oil, and reused. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. Google use cookies for serving our ads and handling visitor statistics. Tiny amounts of oil will inevitably find their way into the stream of gas. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. R134a reacts with water to form hydrofluoric acid which damages the internal A/C components. Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. As Ive said, R12 is a nasty ozone-destroying chemical and should never be released to the environment under any circumstances, so in addition to being illegal to vent it, you have a moral obligation not to vent it. This gas is then cooled via environmental means, and the gas slowly loses heat and reverts to a liquid state. Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. You can spend interesting evenings going down the rabbit hole online and reading posts from folks who vigorously defend flammable refrigerants and say, You do know that your car carries 20 gallons of flammable gasoline, dont you? Yes, but gasoline usually isnt routed through the passenger compartment, and theres a zero-tolerance policy toward gasoline leakage. They differ in the number of ports, alias manifolds, that are used for attaching accessories. Id already decided to, effectively, replace every major component, only re-using the hard aluminum lines and custom fittings on the soft compressor lines. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesnt dissolve in R134a. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. If youre still uncertain, go to a trained technician wholl tell you what refrigeration you have. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. In addition to this, federal laws prohibit the topping up of an R12 system with R134a and vice versa. Like R12, this product is non-toxic, non-flammable, and not explosive. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. But the problem with R12 is twofold. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. But once youre on that path, you can improve the system with a new compressor and parallel-flow condenser which, in most cases, will allow you to get good results with R134a. A significant investment. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. Then there are three new EPA-approved climate-friendly alternatives. There is R1234yf, which is already being used on new cars but is classified as mildly flammable. At $70 per pound, no one is using it in retrofit applications. Not so fast. There are kits that convert R12 to R134a. Another difference is that yf Evaporators must meet SAE Spec J2842, which was not an issue in R-134a systems. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. R12 is recognized as a very stable compound, and it wont break down under even the most stringent conditions, but if it comes in contact with flames or electrical heating elements, it breaks down into toxic components. The new player in the market is HFO-1234yf (R-1234yf), which is considered ozone-friendly and has a GWP of less than 1. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. The biggest problem that youll have is the oil in the system. Sold by e7tools and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. All in all, I'm very happy with the results and see no reason why they won't last. R12 has a global warming potential factor of 2400. You can order a personally inscribed copy here. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. So as long as the system was functioning correctly and not leaking, it appeared that you could flush the system of any old oil, change the oil in the compressor to PAG or ester oil, replace only the receiver-drier and the o-rings, screw on the charging port adapters, evacuate the system, and recharge it with the new R134a, using about 80% as much as the original R12 volume. The cylinder head gasket is one of the most over-engineered and stressed components in an internal combustion engine. When R12s effects on the ozone layer became known and it was superseded by R134a, EPA came down hard with large fines on both professionals and DIY-ers. Some recovery machines are equipped for both R134a and R1234yf. Technicians must capture and recycle R134a safely, and the gas must be disposed of by following the EPA guidelines. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. A simple rule of thumb conversion would be to take the amount of R12 refrigerant your system requires, in pounds, and multiply by 0.9 (your answer should be 90% of the R12 value). To take one of these and convert it to R134a was usually a recipe for disappointment. As part of doing that, you often wind up replacing major portions of the systemnot because thats strictly required in order to convert it to R134a, but because thats what you need to do in order to get it functional again. This is why it is crucially important that R134a systems be properly evacuated (pumped down to boil off any moisture) and kept sealed. https://www.wiseautotools.com/mountain-quick-connect-r12-ac-gauge-conversion-to-134a/ A/C gauge conversion kits from R12 to R134A. Lichamp HVAC R410A Manifold Gauge Set AC R134A, Freon R22 R32 410A 134A Diagnostic Manifold Gauge with Hose Kit Air Conditioner Refrigerant Recharge Kit Visit the Lichamp Store 403 ratings | 10 answered questions -27% $7999 List Price: $109.99 FREE Returns Available at a lower price from other sellers that may not offer free Prime shipping. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was tetrafluoroethane, a hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) branded as R134a. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. R-134a, while non-ozone depleting, is still viewed unfavorably due to its GWP of 1,430. Stay on the right side of the law, the environment, and your conscience, and dont vent refrigerant. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. Hopefully Ive properly conveyed that, if the A/C in your precious vintage car is long-dead, the question isnt whether you choose between buying a few NOS cans of R12 and shooting them in (seriously dont do that) or converting to R134a. 2021 Complete Guide, Find more info about me and HVAC Training 101, Screw, roll, rotary, reciprocating, and centrifugal compressors for refrigeration and air conditioning, Used in automotive air conditioning since 1994, and has been retrofitted to many older models as a replacement to R12, Used to remove humidity from compressed air in gas dusters. The global warming potential is a factor that measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas when compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. First, it is a pernicious ozone-destroying agent, so if you are going to use it in a car, you are morally required to do everything under the sun to thoroughly leak-test the system before charging it with R12. However, R134a is better than R12. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. He passed. But if you live in a hot climate, want to daily-drive the car, and the car has a tiny-capacity A/C system which, even after modernization, may only perform marginally, you may want to consider sticking with R12. This should give you a rough idea of how much youll need. Thats simply not true. This is a remarkable read about the history of R12 to R134a, and the reasons and (few) exceptions to not convert to R134a. Just leave it alone for now. The molecule size of R134a is smaller than that of R12, so there was concern that R134a could leak out through the hoses and flare fittings that R12 systems used. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. Ive always liked them. Most countries frown on the use of these gasses due to their environmental impact. The weight is only 2.4 ounces. We don't save this data. If the target environment is only moderately hot, and your use of the car is light, R134a will probably be fine. It also means that rotary, centrifugal, and reciprocating compressors can be used with R12. Once you take these precautions, it would be possible to use R134A gauges R410A systems seamlessly. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. In addition, there is a $10,000 rat-out fee your neighbor can collect if youre venting refrigerant and he tattles on you. If an A/C system isnt working, the root cause needs to be diagnosed, and the system needs to be fixed. Thats not the case with R12, ensuring that the efficiency of the plant isnt compromised. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. NOTICE: All images, artwork, text & copy on this site and page are legally protected and are not to be reproduced or distributed without prior written consent of Griffiths Technical Inc.Porsche is a registered trademark of Dr. Ing. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. This can significantly affect energy consumption as the plant will operate for longer, or a larger plant will have to be installed. As these refrigerants are slowly phased out, there are still many questions that people have about them. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Hell, its possible that not all of the original A/C components are even there anymore. That makes it safe in terms of safety to use. At this time you can still find R12, but, because it is no longer produced, availability is limited to current inventories and the price per pound is greater than R134a. But many European cars, such as the vintage BMWs I love, had A/C systems that never functioned all that well even when they were new and charged up with R12. This is used in automotive air conditioning in older vehicles and domestic and commercial air conditioning and refrigeration. You can get it and use it. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. The effect that R134a has on global warming makes this gas an unattractive product to many technicians. Problem solved, right? Each has its own cult following and requires its own EPA-approved charging fittings. A set of R134a-specific charging port adapters should be installed to eliminate the possibility of refrigerant cross-contamination. Sign up for the latest automotive news and videosin short, everything for people who love cars. They behave in the same way when used in any form of refrigeration or air conditioning plant. I wouldnt say Im a BMW enthusiast. The problem in all of this is the sentence As long as the system is functioning correctly and not leaking. Who in their right mind would take a tight, cold, R12-based system and convert it to less-efficient R134a? Its chemical name is dichlorodifluoromethane, and its chemical formula is CCl2F2. Your email address will not be published. The biggest difference between the two is that R1234yf is mildly flammable and does require special handling. Oil doesnt stay in the compressor, however, it dissolves in the liquid refrigerant and gets carried through the system as a fine particulate mist when the refrigerant goes through its liquid/gaseous transition. Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. And that brings us to, I continue to use R12 in two of my carsmy 1972 BMW 2002tii and 1973 Bavaria. The air conditioning system in your car uses a combination of evaporation and condensation to cool the interior. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. The manufacture and sale of the small cans of R12 used by hobbyists to top off a system also ended, although New Old Stock (NOS) cans of R12 are still privately traded on eBay and Craigslist (Ill come back to that). The ODP of a chemical is a factor that indicates the amount of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds the earth and protects it from harmful radiation. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. Hope this helps Reply 10-10-2020, 01:12 PM #4 Chris Stritchko Because of this, in the early 1930s, a new refrigerant based on a chlorofluorocarbon (CFC), specifically dichlorodifluoromethane, was developed. Both of these products are refrigerants. For this reason, when a car is being sold these days, R12 is often seen as a liability, a looming conversion expense, even if the system is functional and cold. Thus you see how R134a conversion was often applied to systems that were not working correctly, if they were working at all.
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